Gonzo, I am tuned to BBC2 SD (Channel 2) not BBC2 HD (Channel 102).
It's been established that a reasonable picture of 4:3 programmes can be obtained on my Samsung tv, by setting the HDR2000T to 4:3 (Screen Ratio) and Auto (Display format).
It's just that it's irksome to have to delve into the menus to do this (and remember to reset the values when HD 16:9 programmes are to be viewed)
I just don't remember having to do this with my departed HDR FOX T2.
ifred - 2 hours ago »
Gonzo, I am tuned to BBC2 SD (Channel 2) not BBC2 HD (Channel 102).
It's been established that a reasonable picture of 4:3 programmes can be obtained on my Samsung tv, by setting the HDR2000T to 4:3 (Screen Ratio) and Auto (Display format).
It's just that it's irksome to have to delve into the menus to do this (and remember to reset the values when HD 16:9 programmes are to be viewed)
I just don't remember having to do this with my departed HDR FOX T2.
This is why I use the tuner (if watching live) from the Panasonic TV as this knows how I like things and panders to my every whim 
I think my Humax is female 
Faust - 13 hours ago »
The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.
If memory serves me correctly Graham you have a Panasonic TV? That doesn't display 4.3 material with the black vertical bars, or at least mine doesn't. What is that doing with the picture - stretching it I presume?
What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?
Perverse I know, however, I don't mind horizontal bars for cinemascope type content. I'm sure it must be something to do with the way the mind interprets the different options. Or there again it may simply be me.
Mine has black bars. Take PAL DVD SD content. Both 16:9 and 4:3 content have the same number of pixels (720 x 576). The way the picture is displayed depends on the display correctly interpreting the pixel aspect ratio to create a frame in the correct aspect ratio. If the pixels are displayed at any other PAR the picture is distorted. a 16:9 DVD par correctly scaled fits on a 1920 x 1080 display without losing any content.
To remove the black bars on a 4:3 display and retain the correct par the only way is to expand the horizontal pixels to 1920. At this point the image must have more than 1080 pixels.
Broadcasters tend to cheat and in fact transmit a 16:9 image for 4:3 and pad the edges with black pixels. The image is actually 16:9 you just can't see the black pixels only the ones within the 4:3 content.
grahamlthompson - 12 minutes ago »
Faust - 13 hours ago »
The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.
If memory serves me correctly Graham you have a Panasonic TV? That doesn't display 4.3 material with the black vertical bars, or at least mine doesn't. What is that doing with the picture - stretching it I presume?
What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?
Perverse I know, however, I don't mind horizontal bars for cinemascope type content. I'm sure it must be something to do with the way the mind interprets the different options. Or there again it may simply be me.Mine has black bars. Take PAL DVD SD content. Both 16:9 and 4:3 content have the same number of pixels (720 x 576). The way the picture is displayed depends on the display correctly interpreting the pixel aspect ratio to create a frame in the correct aspect ratio. If the pixels are displayed at any other PAR the picture is distorted. a 16:9 DVD par correctly scaled fits on a 1920 x 1080 display without losing any content.
To remove the black bars on a 4:3 display and retain the correct par the only way is to expand the horizontal pixels to 1920. At this point the image must have more than 1080 pixels.
Broadcasters tend to cheat and in fact transmit a 16:9 image for 4:3 and pad the edges with black pixels. The image is actually 16:9 you just can't see the black pixels only the ones within the 4:3 content.
Exactly. Very good summary.
Freeview could do everyone a service by persuading broadcasters not to do this padding-cheat thing but leave it to the user to make full use of their TV and/or STB options to display the picture according to individual preference.
Personally, I prefer the black-bars presentation of 4:3 content,, but many hate it, and IMO they shouldn't have it forced upon them by the broadcasters.
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small - on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47" picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars - least not on mine it doesn't.
Faust - 10 minutes ago »
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small - on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47" picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars - least not on mine it doesn't.
It either has to be stretched horizontally or zoomed in and the pixel aspect ration preserved.
Take a 720 x 576 4:3 image.
If you retain the shape and display on a Full HD display you need to to increase horizontal pixels by 1920/720 = about 2.666 times larger. To preserve the shape the vertical pixel count would be 2.666 x 576 = 1535. 455 rows of pixels from the upscaled image will not fit on the display. In other words about 160 pixel rows of the original image won't fit.
See Archive material AR 16:9, AFD 15
grahamlthompson - 1 hour ago »
Faust - 10 minutes ago »
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small - on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47" picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars - least not on mine it doesn't.It either has to be stretched horizontally or zoomed in and the pixel aspect ration preserved.
Take a 720 x 576 4:3 image.
If you retain the shape and display on a Full HD display you need to to increase horizontal pixels by 1920/720 = about 2.666 times larger. To preserve the shape the vertical pixel count would be 2.666 x 576 = 1535. 455 rows of pixels from the upscaled image will not fit on the display. In other words about 160 pixel rows of the original image won't fit.
See Archive material AR 16:9, AFD 15
http://www.pjdaniel.org.uk/afd/
What do you have your Panasonic aspect ratio set to? Mine is set to Auto or 16.9.
I was checking 4.3 on the Panasonic before tea against the 2000T. On both I noticed that the channel Ident was clearly visible top left corner without any cut off.
I'm assuming then the Panasonic must be stretching the picture rather than zooming. Whatever it's doing long may it continue as it's doing a good job.
Faust - 13 hours ago »
grahamlthompson - 1 hour ago »
Faust - 10 minutes ago »
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small - on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47" picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars - least not on mine it doesn't.It either has to be stretched horizontally or zoomed in and the pixel aspect ration preserved.
Take a 720 x 576 4:3 image.
If you retain the shape and display on a Full HD display you need to to increase horizontal pixels by 1920/720 = about 2.666 times larger. To preserve the shape the vertical pixel count would be 2.666 x 576 = 1535. 455 rows of pixels from the upscaled image will not fit on the display. In other words about 160 pixel rows of the original image won't fit.
See Archive material AR 16:9, AFD 15
http://www.pjdaniel.org.uk/afd/What do you have your Panasonic aspect ratio set to? Mine is set to Auto or 16.9.
I was checking 4.3 on the Panasonic before tea against the 2000T. On both I noticed that the channel Ident was clearly visible top left corner without any cut off.
I'm assuming then the Panasonic must be stretching the picture rather than zooming. Whatever it's doing long may it continue as it's doing a good job.
Sorry for the delay (plumbing problems)
TV is set to 16:9 Overscan off.
TBH I rarely if ever use it's tuners.
I have set TV and a HDR FOX T2 to record first 15 mins of All Creatures so I can have a look at what's different.
I guess that most of the missing data is at the bottom of the picture. Chopping of the dogs would make it very obvious.
Will post what I find.
grahamlthompson - 53 minutes ago »
Faust - 13 hours ago »
grahamlthompson - 1 hour ago »
Faust - 10 minutes ago »
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small - on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47" picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars - least not on mine it doesn't.It either has to be stretched horizontally or zoomed in and the pixel aspect ration preserved.
Take a 720 x 576 4:3 image.
If you retain the shape and display on a Full HD display you need to to increase horizontal pixels by 1920/720 = about 2.666 times larger. To preserve the shape the vertical pixel count would be 2.666 x 576 = 1535. 455 rows of pixels from the upscaled image will not fit on the display. In other words about 160 pixel rows of the original image won't fit.
See Archive material AR 16:9, AFD 15
http://www.pjdaniel.org.uk/afd/What do you have your Panasonic aspect ratio set to? Mine is set to Auto or 16.9.
I was checking 4.3 on the Panasonic before tea against the 2000T. On both I noticed that the channel Ident was clearly visible top left corner without any cut off.
I'm assuming then the Panasonic must be stretching the picture rather than zooming. Whatever it's doing long may it continue as it's doing a good job.Sorry for the delay (plumbing problems)
TV is set to 16:9 Overscan off.
TBH I rarely if ever use it's tuners.
I have set TV and a HDR FOX T2 to record first 15 mins of All Creatures so I can have a look at what's different.
I guess that most of the missing data is at the bottom of the picture. Chopping of the dogs would make it very obvious.
Will post what I find.
Cheers Graham. What exactly does 'overscan' do?
'Overscan' is the portion of picture that's outside of the visible screen on the standard TV setup so is lost (could be anything from a few mm to an inch or more), there are other settings to allow you to lose even more of the available picture also. Most HD TVs also have a 'Screen Fit' (maybe called something else on different brands) option so that all available pixels of whatever your watching are within the visible screen.
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