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9200 Clock Problem - 2nd Time

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  1. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Pottsy - 1 hour ago  » 
    My 9200T had this problem. I read about the fix of cleaning the board and thought that if the Real Time Clock chip ( 8563T ) is this sensitive then there is probably a real fault hiding there. I fixed it by changing the crystal.
    I found a replacement on Ebay, just search for "crystal 32.768KHz",
    for about 1£ +p&p. There are several sizes available, you need a silver cylindrical type about 6mm long. It is probably best to disconnect the standby battery while replacing the crystal.
    Admin Edit: Moved post to thread you have already contributed to, please only post same/similar info once.

    The 'real problem' is the contamination chemically generating a voltage that shuts down the RTC oscillator. In changing the crystal you will have simply disturbed that contamination by the action of soldering. Changing the crystal, or anything else for that matter, is not necessary.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 10:46:23 #11 |
  2. Biggles

    Biggles

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    aldaweb - 1 year ago  » 
    AIUI the time is picked up from the broadcast signal so would initially be --:-- until it sets itself.
    Glad it seems to be sorted again.

    Sorry I missed this thread as I'm usually in Cornwall June/July time when this thread started. If I remember correctly (without my notes to hand) a successfully repaired clock starts at 13:00 and then corrects itself when a broadcast is received.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 10:55:19 #12 |
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    Pottsy

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    Isn't it possible that the cleaning action with the standby battery still connected is enough to trigger the oscillator to start again? Let's wait to see if anybody who has had the clock problem a second time is able to fix it by changing the crystal.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 12:55:13 #13 |
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    Martin Liddle

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    Pottsy - 24 minutes ago  » 
    Isn't it possible that the cleaning action with the standby battery still connected is enough to trigger the oscillator to start again? Let's wait to see if anybody who has had the clock problem a second time is able to fix it by changing the crystal.

    But if you read the original post by Biggles you would know that he actually measured the voltage produced by the contamination on the board and saw it decrease as he cleaned the board.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 13:21:04 #14 |
  5. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Pottsy - 26 minutes ago  » 
    Isn't it possible that the cleaning action with the standby battery still connected is enough to trigger the oscillator to start again? Let's wait to see if anybody who has had the clock problem a second time is able to fix it by changing the crystal.

    Totally irrelevant. I can simulate the problem exactly as it happens, the cause of the problem is not in question.

    If people want to change the crystal or any other component then that is up to them, but I repeat it is not necessary. If you had been interested in this problem for as long as I have and read all the posts before I discovered the cause of the problem then you would know that several people had effected a 'repair' by changing components, but they didn't last. The reason being simply that the contamination had been disturbed by the action of soldering but the boards soon failed again. Suggesting to people to change a component when it isn't necessary is irresponsible, not everybody has the skills to do the job successfully.

    If people are having second failures it is because they didn't do the job correctly in the first place, as far as I'm aware the two boards I repaired are still working.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 13:44:05 #15 |
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    Pottsy

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    The title of this topic is "9200 Clock Problem - 2nd Time".
    Cleaning the board on my machine fixed it the first time but the cure only worked for a couple of months. It did not work a second time, replacing the crystal did. The purpose of this forum is to put information out there. Is the only alternative to the cleaning fix to purchase an entire board for £30+?
    Many home electronics and computer enthusiasts who would search the web for a fix for this problem and are the sort of person who can change a component on a PCB. The crystal is not a multi legged surface mount chip and it costs less than £2. If I was giving full repair instructions I would of course give all the usual warnings and disclaimers.
    I have no axe to grind. I put the information on the forum to pass it on to other users even though it is buried as the nth posting on a one year old topic. Let's see if there is any response.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 15:20:21 #16 |
  7. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Pottsy - 3 minutes ago  » 
    The title of this topic is "9200 Clock Problem - 2nd Time".
    Cleaning the board on my machine fixed it the first time but the cure only worked for a couple of months. It did not work a second time, replacing the crystal did. The purpose of this forum is to put information out there. Is the only alternative to the cleaning fix to purchase an entire board for £30+?
    Many home electronics and computer enthusiasts who would search the web for a fix for this problem and are the sort of person who can change a component on a PCB. The crystal is not a multi legged surface mount chip and it costs less than £2. If I was giving full repair instructions I would of course give all the usual warnings and disclaimers.
    I have no axe to grind. I put the information on the forum to pass it on to other users even though it is buried as the nth posting on a one year old topic. Let's see if there is any response.

    Of course it is possible that you damaged the crystal on your second attempt at the repair. Until I am told different by the owners of the two boards I repaired I will assume those boards are still working so doing the job correctly in the first place effects a lasting repair.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 15:27:05 #17 |
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    Pottsy

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    I can accept that electrochemical processes can occur on PCBs. That is the reason manufacturers go to the trouble of washing off the flux residues after soldering. I have even experienced short circuits between tracks on a multi layer board caused by metal growth.
    Can you not accept that crystals can degrade over time?

    You have slated my posts as "irrelevant" and suggested that I "damaged the crystal" on my second attempt at cleaning the board.
    I suggest that the moderator promote these exchanges to a new topic, so that they can be found by most searches, and let the members decide if I wasted my time by posting my experience.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 16:19:59 #18 |
  9. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Of course components can fail but crystals and ICs are very reliable and in my experience these components only fail after human intervention. Consider this, there are millions of quartz clocks knocking around (I have about 8 without looking, some very old) all with the same or similar crystal to that in the 9200, do they fail or degrade, I doubt it. The only failures I have seen in quartz clocks have been poor battery contacts.

    I have not slated your posts but the content of your post #12 is rubbish and therefore irrelevant. The oscillator does not need to be triggered to start, the oscillator is free running providing nothing is stopping it from running, in this case a voltage generated by some chemical process. When I cleaned Martin's board the super capacitor (there is no “standby battery”) had been removed so obviously could not have had any influence. It is inconceivable that the tens, maybe hundreds, of people that have successfully repaired their clock boards have done it due to some fluke of the super capacitor somehow triggering the oscillator into life. If you have any hard evidence to support your theory in post #12 then I'll be pleased to hear it.

    I investigated, solved and came up with a solution to the 9200 clock problem that would allow almost anybody to get their 9200 fully functioning again. Before going public I simulated the problem on Martin's board and also on a test circuit on the bench to be sure I'd not missed anything. I did this for my own interest and shared it with the Humax community. I do not intend to rubbish your posts, I simply want the readers to know the facts (not theory’s) and then they can decide for themselves if changing components is worthwhile. Of course there might be the odd board that has a component problem, yours might be it, but of all the people that have posted here and on DS not one that I can recall has failed to repair their 9200 using my instructions.

    | Tue 24 Sep 2013 21:53:05 #19 |
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    Pottsy

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    How many people have failed to fix this problem and fitted a replacement board board at a cost of £32 ? Are they still available?

    Why is there a video on YouTube on how to replace the board?

    On my card the "super capacitor" is a battery. Does nobody from Humax read these posts.

    Of course the oscillator does not need to be triggered --- when it is working.

    In the end it all comes down to the fact that I had a faulty card, cleaning didn't fix it. I replaced the crystal at a cost of £2 and it is now working.

    Why is this topic so hard to find with the most common search terms?

    | Wed 25 Sep 2013 9:21:58 #20 |

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