After a great deal of investigation I have discovered that my Humax FVP-4000T is causing an intermittent problem that I have been experiencing with the 'home cinema' connection between my Panasonic TX-50DX750B tv and my Yamaha YSP-2700 soundbar. The FVP has a hdmi connection to the tv and the soundbar has an hdmi arc connection.
The TVs and soundbar lose their 'home cinema' connection when they are switched off for more than five minutes, and then reconnecting them can be very a 'hit and miss' affair which has been extremely frustrating. Both the tv and soundbar have been replaced by the supplier to try to resolve the issue but to no avail. Finally today I was guided to disconnect all other devices and then reconnect them one by one. It was discovered that the problem only existed when the FVP was connected to either the TV or the soundbar.
A call to Humax Technical Support informed me that this situation is a known phenomena. Apparently the hdmi communication of the FVP can upset the hdmi handshake of 'home cinema' configurations especially of the 4K variety. I was not offered a solution. Apparently it will be some time before Humax can offer a 4K compatible device.
Everyone seems to sing the praises of hdmi connectivity but beware, there are shortcomings! I am left perplexed why all major manufacturers are not able to maintain a hdmi communication protocol that will support such devices through the stages of evolution in such a way that new generation devices will function correctly when connected to more dated ones.
A possible compromise solution would be to introduce a menu option to de-select the hdmi connection on the FVP when it is not required. I am thinking of adding a manual hdmi switch cable as a solution. Any other suggestions are welcomed.
My Humax Forum » Freeview HD » FVP 4000T, 5000T
FVP-4000T HDMI
(14 posts)-
| Thu 19 Jan 2017 17:06:42 #1 |
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RusstyB - 54 minutes ago »
Everyone seems to sing the praises of hdmi connectivityI don't know anybody that sings the praises, Intel or Sony maybe, but it's a real pita, a nightmare and Humax's implementation over the years seems to cause more problems than other manufacturers.
Look at a hdmi switch/splitter/adapter that does EDID, something like:
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/matrix-switches-splitters-c166/edid-emulator-adapter-hdmi-with-preset-edid-p8234/s8385
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HDMI-MHL-Audio-SPDIF-R-L-Extractor-4K-ARC-EDID-Setting-Audio-Extractor-New-Lot-/381372403160Not too sure if either will fix the problem, but it's where I'd start. Humax aren't going to change anything their end.
Let us know how you get on, and welcome to the forum| Thu 19 Jan 2017 18:19:24 #2 | -
Damian, thank you for your response.
Please forgive my ignorance I have limited technical knowledge. Is the purpose of the adaptors you proposed to sit in the hdmi arc line between the tv and the soundbar, or between the Humax and the tv? From what I read the EDIT function is to maintain a signal between the display screen and the graphics card of the screen capabilities. Do you think communication may be failing between the tv and the Humax, or between the tv and the soundbar.
My proposed solution was more of a cop out and to insert a hdmi switch between the Humax and the tv and manually disconnect it until it is required to be reconnected in order to replay a recording. I need the Humax to be in standby mode in order to record scheduled programmes but at the same time have the hdmi communication disconnected when not in use.| Thu 19 Jan 2017 20:38:09 #3 | -
Hi RusstyB,
A lot of this will be trial and error and particular to your setup, it does get overly complicated at times.I'm assuming you exhausted the configuration possibilities before sending the TV and soundbar back and having them replaced.
You don't mention any other devices that are connected.If I've understood, the fvp is connected to the tv and the soundbar is also connected to the tv. The tv and soundbar don't handshake correctly, i.e. re-establish a proper connection when the fvp is connected to the tv.
I assume picture and sound from the fvp get to the tv okay i.e. you can watch and hear the fvp normally on tv and it's just the audio to the soundbar that fails.I also assume, you've the soundbar hdmi output plugged into hdmi input2 (arc) on the tv and the fvp plugged into hdmi 3 or 4, i.e. the non 4K inputs?
Also you've explored plugging the fvp hdmi into the soundbar, which means you don't always need the tv on to listen to music/radio, and the soundbar as normal into hdmi 2 of the tv.
Also that the fvp is set to multichannel/dolby-digital in the audio section of general settings and the fvp's own volume is set to maximum (20)
Also that hdmi-cec in system settings is off on the fvp and you've been through the equivalent cec/viera-link settings on the tv for the hdmi input that the fvp is connected to.
Personally, I'd have all devices (fvp etc) plugged into the soundbar and a single hdmi from the soundbar to the tv and use a universal remote to control it.
So far I'm trying to cover all bases to see if anything's been missed. If none of the above works and it's clear the fvp is the culprit then it needs to be isolated. I wouldn't want to go down a switch route, firstly it'd be a pain to manually switch it physically or by remote control and secondly the fvp will have to go through handshaking again and it's anybody's guess whether this'll work 100% of the time or whether it'll need rebooting or whether it'll affect the tv and soundbar.
It's not clear to me whether the lindy adapter passes audio through (I assume it does, but no mention of it), what I liked though was that there's no messy power supply.
The adapter would be connected between the fvp and the tv as it's the fvp that's causing the problem according to your post. The idea is that the fvp handshakes with the adapter and that remains constant. The adapter also keeps a constant connection with the tv. In theory when the soundbar and tv re-establish their connection then the fvp isn't really brought into the equation as the tv just sees the adapter and the fvp has no reason to send any data/signals that would muck up the soundbar/tv handshake.I trust this makes sort of sense. As previously mentioned this will be trial and error, unless someone out there has the exact same setup and has found a solution.
I would double check first that the fvp is going into hdmi 3 or 4 on the tv and the soundbar is going into hdmi 2 with the appropriate settings if you want to keep the same setup.
Personally, as mentioned above, I'd have everything going into the soundbar and a single hdmi from the soundbar -> tv and any adapter/switch/splitter should be seen as a last resort.
let us know how you get on.| Fri 20 Jan 2017 8:13:18 #4 | -
The FVP interferes with HDMI on my setup as well, since the option to turn off HDMI control in system it improved but the FVP locks other devices out.
I have a Samsung Smart TV using ARC back to a Denon Amp with a PS4 and PS3 connected.
If I disconnect all devices and re-establish HDMI then finally add the FVP I can get everything to work fro several months.
When it works the HDMI and ARC is brilliant
Then after a full power off of any device (or some other random occurance) the link goes, and the only way to recover it is to disconnect the HDMI to the FVP and rescan.
The believe the HDMI implementaion from HUMAX to be poor and the cause.| Fri 20 Jan 2017 13:26:39 #5 | -
Damian, Thank you for the time you put in to provide such detailed explanation. In my experience the FVP is much more disruptive than that of Bitterman. My home cinema link would only survive for approximately five minutes if the tv and soundbar were switched to standby.
I can confirm that my investigations led me to exactly the set-up that you advocate but no solution.
After further research I found an article on hdmi problems, http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-problems.html, which suggested that the sequence of power up can affect hdmi communication, the display to be powered up first and subsequently the sources / players. Overnight I left all devices and cables disconnected and started set-up again this evening. However I then found that I could not get the tv and soundbar to link no matter what sequence I tried. I am going to leave the FVP and DVD powered off until I get my hands on one of those EDIT adaptors that you suggested.
I will advise how I get on in a few days.| Fri 20 Jan 2017 19:36:16 #6 | -
RusstyB - 1 hour ago »
I am going to leave the FVP and DVD powered off until I get my hands on one of those EDIT adaptors that you suggested.
I will advise how I get on in a few days.Hi RusstyB
the more I look at the Lindy adapter the more I think it's not suitable and not recommended. There's an alternative:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/kwmobile-Manager-audio-video-control/dp/B01M3SH3CL
which may make more sense and is where I would now start. I've not spent hours/days researching so there may be better alternatives out there.
I've not used any of the adapters, but the edid switch I did buy and no longer available was considerably more expensive a few years ago and sorted my problems out at the time with my humax, but obviously no guarantee for your setup.| Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:09:15 #7 | -
Hello Damian,
Unfortunately the kwmobile EDIT manager did not solve the problem or change things in any way, despite the fact that it had a setting to clone the handshake signal, I have returned it.
I have opted for the compromise solution and inserted a bi-directional hdmi switch between the Humax box and the TVs, which functions as an isolator switch for the Humax hdmi connection. When the Humax hdmi is isolated everything works fine on the home cinema front. The Humax hdmi can be switched on when it is required and the handshaking works. As long as the Humax hdmi is disconnected before the TVs is switched off everything remains connected ready for the occasion.
This is the switch I used : https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01EHAAHOW/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you once again for your assistance.| Tue 7 Feb 2017 20:48:18 #8 | -
Hi RusstyB,
thanks for the update and confirming that the kwmobile did not help.
Also thank you for confirming that a manual isolating switch does work. I'm sure these type of hdmi problems will crop up time and time again for others.
| Tue 7 Feb 2017 23:46:38 #9 | -
Ok. So it's a bit late but here's what I've found. The issue isn't specifically a 'problem' with the hummy box, more of a feature, I'll explain. Pin 13 of the HDMI connector is used for all Arc and CEC comms between devices. Its used to swith other devices on or off remotely. The 4000T has the ability to swith on the TV as the hummy box switches on and this is done via pin 13. The issue with the hummy box is that whilst in stand by it's still periodically talking on pin 13 (software issue from Humax) and this causes interference with other CEC devices and that includes Arc. There are currently 2 work arounds:-
1) change the sttings in the hummy box power management section to prevent auto stand by and simply leave the hummy box on. (Obviously this isn't always the best for power consumption, hdd life etc)
2) buy a CEC isolator adaptor (£10) which basically removes the pin 13 connection between the hummy box and the TV. You simply plug it in to either end of your HDMI lead and the problem goes away.
http://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/audio-video-c107/hdmi-cec-less-adapter-female-to-male-p7299By the way, this issue isn't just caused by Humax boxes. Sky Q and other PVR devices can cause issues with sound bar / amp control
| Sun 3 Dec 2017 10:21:55 #10 |
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