My Humax Forum » Freeview HD » HDR 1800T, 2000T

HDR-1800T Live TV Playing Issue

(40 posts)
  1. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson

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    Thinking about this a bit more it makes no sense.

    Say you are watching a HD channel. The Video Data data is compressed using the H264AVC codec and the audio with aac (advanced audio codec).

    SD channels use mpeg2 (same as DVD) and mpeg1 layer 2 audio (MP2) audio.

    The tuner extracts these streams, This stream of data is digital so when you record it it is simply copied to a hard disk file. The file is exactly the same as the original transmission. The same applies to when the current tuner stores the live stream to the time shift buffer file.

    That's why true pvr's record in exactly the same quality as the original broadcast.

    This isn't true for DVD recorders. The data is recoded, depending on the bitrate used the recording can be made smaller than the broadcast at the expense of quality.

    The audio and video compression is removed within the box decoding module, the now much larger amount of data is transmitted over HDMI to the display device.

    The same bit of the box handles the audio and video decoding process. The only difference is where the data come from. It is either the live tuner output, the time shift buffer file or the actual recording file.

    How can the same data produce problems when delivered direct from the tuner rather than from a exact copy from the box HDD.

    Answers on a postcard please.

    I can only think it's a issue in the direct signal path from tuner output to decoding module in.

    The playback of an entire programme succesfully using chasing playback might help to confirm this hypothesis.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 17:34:40 #21 |
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    tiffy2

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    @grahamlthompson:

    Carried out the recording scenarion exactly as you directed in your previous post.
    After 10 minutes into the scheduled (HD) recording started playing while still recording, absolutely no issues experienced during the remainder of the 1 hour program.
    After completion, the recorded program was also perfect and played without issue.

    Definately a strange issue which I have not seen recorded to date, with your level of knowledge on the subject by comparison to my very limited Linux system knowledge, I can only surmise that there is an issue with decoding a live DVB-T2 (only) data stream which certainly will not be easily fixed, the recorder is close to 4 years old now and certainly well beyond warranty.

    With what appears to be full appreciation of the issue now I can live with the limitations currently imposed and accept the work arounds while I decide on a replacement for the recorder.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 19:08:05 #22 |
  3. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson

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    tiffy2 - 23 minutes ago  » 
    @grahamlthompson:
    Carried out the recording scenarion exactly as you directed in your previous post.
    After 10 minutes into the scheduled (HD) recording started playing while still recording, absolutely no issues experienced during the remainder of the 1 hour program.
    After completion, the recorded program was also perfect and played without issue.
    Definately a strange issue which I have not seen recorded to date, with your level of knowledge on the subject by comparison to my very limited Linux system knowledge, I can only surmise that there is an issue with decoding a live DVB-T2 (only) data stream which certainly will not be easily fixed, the recorder is close to 4 years old now and certainly well beyond warranty.
    With what appears to be full appreciation of the issue now I can live with the limitations currently imposed and accept the work arounds while I decide on a replacement for the recorder.

    None of this Linux related.

    It cannot be related to the modulation used. If it was the recordings would be affected as well. In fact you would get nothing.

    Are SD channels equally affected as well ?

    DVB-T2 is backwards compatible with DVB-T. In fact if you connect a digital modulator to a totally seperate HDMI source, These devices produce a single HD DVB-T single channel MUX using the UHF carrier of your choice, that Humax Freeview-HD pvrs can tune and record, just like RTE.

    eg

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Technomate-TM-RF-HD-HDMI-Modulator/dp/B07284V3RH/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=digital+modulator&qid=1556480727&s=instant-video&sr=8-1

    Any device with DVB-T2 capability can work with DVB-T because the standard was designed to be backwards compatible even if the source is HD. DVB-S2 (satellite is the same). There are HD channels on Freesat that still use DVB-S.

    So your RTE channel(s) on 800+ is not the issue. This would only affect the series/ accurate recording system for UK transmitters, though manual recordings for RTE should work just fine.

    None of this has any bearing on the breakup of live TV be it SD or HD or with DVB-T or DVB-T2 modulation.

    Still not sure if the problem is restricted to only RTE channels. If so there is likely not a issue with your box. If so a new box won't fix.

    Not familiar with RTE terrestrial DVB-T transmission standards. eg bandwidth gap between Mux, FEC settings or some other change.

    Perhaps some change in transmission parameters have created issues with UK specced DVB-T kit.

    Perhaps ask if others using UK Humax or other makes in the borders area have similar issues.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 19:42:39 #23 |
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    tiffy2

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    @grahamlthompson:

    Quote: Are SD channels equally affected as well ?

    No, as reported earlier all SD channels play perfectly live as do RTE SD and HD channels.

    I am totally impressed by your knowledge of the subject and very much appreciate you taking the time to impart to a less informed person.

    I'am certainly stumped and resigned to the fact that the recorder is now past it's best and will have to be retired shortly so please don't spend any more of your valuable time on the issue unless you absolutely wish to do so.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 19:58:27 #24 |
  5. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson

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    tiffy2 - 12 minutes ago  » 
    @grahamlthompson:
    Quote: Are SD channels equally affected as well ?
    No, as reported earlier all SD channels play perfectly live as do RTE SD and HD channels.
    I am totally impressed by your knowledge of the subject and very much appreciate you taking the time to impart to a less informed person.
    I'am certainly stumped and resigned to the fact that the recorder is now past it's best and will have to be retired shortly so please don't spend any more of your valuable time on the issue unless you absolutely wish to do so.

    So all UK based SD or HD channels create the live TV issue, but not the RTE ones. Is that correct ?

    Don't worry about the time.

    The HDR- 1800/2000T are still still current recorders so Humax should at least provide support for what is still a current machine.

    https://uk.humaxdigital.com/product/hdr-2000t/

    https://uk.humaxdigital.com/product/hdr-1800t/

    Your box has shown no hardware faults, so basically looks like a firmware bug possibly revealed by your geographic location. That should not create issues when tuned to UK transmitters as is yours.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 20:20:20 #25 |
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    tiffy2

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    @grahamlthompson:

    Quote: So all UK based SD or HD channels create the live TV issue, but not the RTE ones. Is that correct ?

    Apologies if I have not made this clear:
    All UK based HD channels give the live TV (video & audio stuttering) issue.
    None of the UK based SD channels exibit this issue.

    All RTE based SD & HD channels display (and sound) normal, no issues.

    To the best of my knowledge, RTE HD transmissions differ from UK based transmissions in that RTE have not adopted the DVB-T2 standard so leading me to conclude that the issue with my recorder is somehow associated with processing the DVB-T2 format data as all SD transmissions (and RTE HD transmissions) work normally from UK or RTE based sources and only UK based HD (DVB-T2) transmissions are manifesting the issue.

    I will be away from home for a few days but will certainly submit a request for assistance to Humax on my return, can't do any harm although not very hopeful judging by general forum feedback.

    Can't remember if I mentioned earlier but I did go through the process of re-loading firmware even though I was already on the latest revision, made no difference.

    | Sun 28 Apr 2019 23:18:10 #26 |
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    SSThing

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    Very similar to the issue I reported :-
    https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/4000t-and-2000t-sound-issues

    It has not happened recently but now I have posted thus, I am sure it will return.

    | Mon 29 Apr 2019 5:54:11 #27 |
  8. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson

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    tiffy2 - 9 hours ago  » 
    @grahamlthompson:
    Quote: So all UK based SD or HD channels create the live TV issue, but not the RTE ones. Is that correct ?
    Apologies if I have not made this clear:
    All UK based HD channels give the live TV (video & audio stuttering) issue.
    None of the UK based SD channels exibit this issue.

    All RTE based SD & HD channels display (and sound) normal, no issues.
    To the best of my knowledge, RTE HD transmissions differ from UK based transmissions in that RTE have not adopted the DVB-T2 standard so leading me to conclude that the issue with my recorder is somehow associated with processing the DVB-T2 format data as all SD transmissions (and RTE HD transmissions) work

    normally from UK or RTE based sources and only UK based HD (DVB-T2) transmissions are manifesting the issue.
    I will be away from home for a few days but will certainly submit a request for assistance to Humax on my return, can't do any harm although not very hopeful judging by general forum feedback.
    Can't remember if I mentioned earlier but I did go through the process of re-loading firmware even though I was already on the latest revision, made no difference.

    What signal strength and quality do you get on both the RTE HD and SD channels.

    I have seen your post re the UK channels which as Martin says look fine. Be interesting to compare the RTE channel figures.

    | Mon 29 Apr 2019 8:34:48 #28 |
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    tiffy2

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    SSThing - 1 day ago  » 
    Very similar to the issue I reported :-
    https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/4000t-and-2000t-sound-issues
    It has not happened recently but now I have posted thus, I am sure it will return.

    Yes, similar except that my issue effects audio & video and has been proven to be an issue only on UK, HD format transmissions, works perfectly on RTE, HD transmissions which incorporate a different standard as previously mentioned.
    Not an issue on any SD transmissions !

    | Tue 30 Apr 2019 15:54:37 #29 |
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    tiffy2

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    @grahamlthompson:

    Quote: What signal strength and quality do you get on both the RTE HD and SD channels.

    On RTE SD transponder, 75/100 (Strength/Quality)
    On RTE HD transponder, 79/100 (Strength/Quality)

    Re-tested UK transmissions:
    On SD transponders, 54/100 (Strength/Quality)
    On HD transponder, 67/100 (Strength/Quality)

    | Tue 30 Apr 2019 16:50:15 #30 |

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