My Humax Forum » Freeview HD » HDR 1800T, 2000T

2000T doesn't fully wake using Power On Timer

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    Alan White

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    This is an update to my thread but as things have moved on I thought it better to post a new thread with a useful title to properly document the issue.

    There are also similarities with this thread and this thread.

    Summary
    There's a problem using the timer (Menu>Settings>Preferences>Time>Power On Timer) to wake a 2000T. The 2000T will not properly wake up: there'll be no HDMI output, and recordings will not be accessible.

    After much testing I now have a better understanding of what the problems are. Unfortunately I don't have a solution though I do have a somewhat convoluted workround.

    Let's recap my situation. In one room I have an LG 32LB580V TV and a Humax HDR-2000T. These have worked together happily for about two years. For convenience and power-saving the 2000T is turned off at 01:00 and on at 09:00 using the timers (Menu>Settings>Preferences>Time>Power On/Off Timer). Lets call this equipment TVA and HumaxA.

    In another room I have a recently purchased LG 42LF652V TV and a Humax HDR-2000T purchased new direct from Humax a couple of weeks ago. Lets call this equipment TVB and HumaxB. I configured HumaxB to the same timer settings as HumaxA but there are two problems when HumaxB wakes up:
    1. TVB reports that there is no input signal from HumaxB (let's call this the "no output" problem)
    2. the media button, video option, and live pause buttons on HumaxB remote do nothing (let's call this the "no media" problem)
    (Problem 1 can be "resolved" by unplugging/plugging in the HDMI lead, which is how problem 2 becomes visible.)

    After testing, I can add that:
    - Simplink (LG's CEC) on or off make no difference
    - using different HDMI ports on TVB makes no difference
    - using different HDMI cables between TVB and HumaxB makes no difference
    - all HDMI ports on TVB and the equipment normally connected to them work as expected, except HumaxB
    - the "no output" problem only occurs if TVB is not on (i.e. showing a picture) at the time HumaxB wakes up
    - HumaxB appears to work normally if woken manually rather than by timer
    - although the "no media" problem suggests that the hard disk isn't available, in fact it works normally and scheduled recordings are made
    - I also have a Foxsat HDR connected to TVB by HDMI with the same timers and this always wakes up properly

    As I have two 2000Ts in different rooms then I temporarily swapped them over so that BoxA is connected to TVB and vice versa. In this configuration then one of the symptoms moves but the other stays where it is.
    HumaxA -> TVB = no output but media etc is OK
    HumaxB -> TVA = output OK but no media etc

    Conclusions
    Because both 2000Ts exhibit the "no output" problem only on TVB then there's an incompatibility between Humax's and LG's software in some circumstances.
    Because HumaxB always exhibits the "no media" problem then it is faulty or, more likely, there's a software bug which only manifests itself in certain circumstances.

    I think it unlikely that returning HumaxB for replacement would resolve either of these problems as they're most likely software-related and it's difficult for me to say whether the "no output" is Humax's or LG's problem. Both 2000Ts and both TVs are on the latest versions of the software according to Humax's and LG's websites.

    Workrounds:
    - don't use timer to wake
    or, if using timers on HumaxB
    - the "no output" problem can be worked around by waking TVB for a couple of minutes using its own timers either side of HumaxB waking
    - the "no media" problem can be worked around by scheduling a short recording soon after after HumaxB has woken up.
    Of course, all these workrounds come with disadvantages so it's a question of deciding which problems I'd like to live with.

    I'll report all this to Humax purely for completeness though I don't expect any positive result. In the meantime if anyone has any other suggestions or is experiencing similar problems I'd love to hear about it.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 13:34:20 #1 |
  2. REPASSAC

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    "For convenience and power-saving".
    You would save a lot more power by placing the Humax's in standby when not required.

    I can imagine that HDMI handshaking will not correctly take place if the connected TV is off.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 14:32:10 #2 |
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    Alan White

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    You missed "convenience". Manually turning a PVR on and off as required isn't convenient. They're not like TVs, which come on more or less instantly. The 2000T is quicker than, say, the Foxsat, to start up but it still takes a minute or two. When I sit down to watch TV, I want to just get on and watch TV

    Handshaking with the TV off takes place perfectly well between TVB and the Foxsat, 9300T, and soundbar connected to it; and between TVA and the 2000T and soundbar connected to it. It's only TVB and either 2000T that has a problem.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 14:48:39 #3 |
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    Faust

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    Alan, I gave up shouting at the moon on this one some time ago. I tried that many options I had to write them down due to my utter confusion.

    That said I now have power saving set to ON, the box will switch off automatically if I forget too, though such an event is as rare as hens teeth.

    I now only switch on our 2000T if I am going to use it - manually. In the case of the 2000T I make sure the TV is switched on first. Finally I do not use the Timer with the 2000T.

    Just to add salt into the wound I have our 1000s on timer, switching on at 17.55 every evening and this never exhibits the issues that the 2000T does.

    Our TV is a Panasonic with Viera Link OFF.

    Sometimes you just have to go with the flow.

    I could go on at length about how poor the DLNA is on the 1000s or it could be our Panasonic HWT-120s fault. If I use the Humax to access programmes on the HWT-120 it's anyones guess what I will get. It could be 'unsupported file format' message, it could be complete lock-up or I could select a programme about Churchill and we get 'Black Beauty' instead (happened yesterday). The Panasonic TVs own DLNA app plays all the material 100% every time (that includes our NAS).

    | Thu 26 May 2016 15:06:40 #4 |
  5. REPASSAC

    REPASSAC

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    Alan I don't have a 2000T but guess it can't be much different from a Foxsat or a HDR-1000S (~35 secs), think a minute or two must be an overstatement. My Smart TV takes about 20 secs.

    I would much rather save the electricity.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 15:51:15 #5 |
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    Alan White

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    Yes, it's an overstatement. It always seems longer when you're sitting waiting for it

    Times from standby to picture:
    Foxsat HDR (with CF) = 44s
    2000T = 38s
    LG 42LF652V TV = 6s (though 15s to access menus)

    We digress slightly: while turning the 2000T (and TV, and Foxsat, and soundbar) off and on manually is undoubtedly an option, it isn't one I want to use; which is why proper functioning of the timers is important to me.

    The cost of the electricity, within reason, isn't something which overly concerns me. Which gives another workround: leave the 2000T on all the time. I used to do that with the 9300T with no ill effects; the Foxsat doesn't work properly if it's left on; I wonder what the 2000T is like.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 16:30:51 #6 |
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    Luke

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    Alan White - 6 hours ago  » 
    You missed "convenience". Manually turning a PVR on and off as required isn't convenient. They're not like TVs, which come on more or less instantly. The 2000T is quicker than, say, the Foxsat, to start up but it still takes a minute or two.

    That is nothing like my HDR-2000T. Mine is always a fraction under 4 seconds. If it was longer I'd action a default settings and also double check that the power saving in stand-by is switched to 'off'.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 21:26:54 #7 |
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    Faust

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    Luke - 58 minutes ago  » 

    Alan White - 6 hours ago  » 
    You missed "convenience". Manually turning a PVR on and off as required isn't convenient. They're not like TVs, which come on more or less instantly. The 2000T is quicker than, say, the Foxsat, to start up but it still takes a minute or two.

    That is nothing like my HDR-2000T. Mine is always a fraction under 4 seconds. If it was longer I'd action a default settings and also double check that the power saving in stand-by is switched to 'off'.

    You must not be using power saving in standby then - our 2000T is around the 38 second mark but around 5 seconds if power saving is switched off.

    You must be made of money.

    | Thu 26 May 2016 22:27:08 #8 |
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    Alan White

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    I get different results from Luke and Faust. The startup time of my 2000T (HumaxB: I can't test the other because it's recording all afternoon) does not vary with the setting of Power Saving in Standby (PSS). The startup time is 38s whether the option is on or off. What software versions do Luke and Faust have?

    On the financial aspect, I tested the power consumption of the 2000T in various settings (using a domestic energy monitor, so not scientific).
    Full on: 0.08A, 11W
    In standby, PSS off: 0.02A, 1W
    In standby, PSS on: 0.01A, 0W

    You'll note that these don't calculate to a voltage of 240V, which says more about the accuracy of domestic energy monitors at low current than it does about the 2000T. But lets go with those, and assume that the PSS on value is the 0.5W quoted by Humax.

    My electricity tariff charges 12.02ppkWh + 5% VAT. Leaving the 2000T on all the time would cost about £12.17pa. In permanent standby with PSS off, £1.11pa; with PSS on, £0.56pa. On my chosen duty cycle of 16 hours on, 8 hours off with PSS on, the annual running cost of a 2000T is about £8.48pa. On that cycle, the difference between PSS on and off is about £0.18pa. No-one needs to be made of money to run this equipment

    On the technical aspect, do we know what the differences are between PSS on and off? The only thing I'm aware of is RF loopthrough, which I don't need as I use a splitter. PSS on or off makes no difference to the problems of "no output" and "no media".

    I've also noticed that the "no media" problem occurs after a cold boot. That is, if I turn the unit to standby then off at the mains, then back on at the mains then out of standby, the media button, live pause, and all disk-related menu options do nothing. I have to place the unit into standby then out again in order to restore proper operation. As with this problem's other manifestation, a scheduled recording does succeed.

    Because of this new discovery I now think that there is a hardware problem with this unit: a "slow to wake up" disk. I'm happy to accept that the "no output" problem is an incompatibility issue but as the "no media" problem moves with this box and also appears on cold boot I think this is a fault.

    Just to satisfy myself, I'll perform these two new tests - PSS on/off startup time, and no media on cold boot - on the other 2000T I have, then I'll compose an email to Humax. After I've done a reset to default to try to pre-empt their usual response

    | Fri 27 May 2016 16:36:18 #9 |
  10. Barry

    Barry

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    Software version 1.01.06 introduced the rf loop through 'fix' when power saving mode switched off.

    The latest software version is 1.01.16

    | Fri 27 May 2016 17:16:45 #10 |

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