Shaun the Sheep - a BBC children's programme.
Forget children, we love Shaun the Sheep in our house and are much nearer the OAP. 
My Humax Forum » Freeview HD » FVP 4000T, 5000T
5 USA recordings start late and finish early
(64 posts)-
| Fri 15 Jan 2016 16:46:10 #41 |
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James
Thanks for pointing to that. I think that the C5 / 5 USA problem is definiely C5 / 5 USA. My 2p worth is
1 The Humax 9200T released 10 years ago seems to use the programme information banners to start (and presumably stop) the recording. C5 etc were, and may still be, terrible as they consistently and repeatedly appeared to change the programm information well before the previous programme ended, so giving bad recordings.
I think it was probably a design error by Humax to use the programme information banner for timing. Equally, however, it could have been that the timing signals were not available when the 9200T design was completed. Or it could be that the standards changed. For example, the information banner might originally have been sent at the same time as the programme timing signals, allowing manufacturers to choose either. If this requirement was then relaxed, those manufacturers who chose it were left up the creek without the proverbial paddle.
2 The FVP-4000T is much more modern and seems to me to use the correct "Record me now" signals to start and stop the recordings.
3 All channels occasionally make a mistake - that is to be expected and you cannot prevent it entireley. But C5 and 5 USA seem to be in class of their own with the number and frequency of errors they make and recordings are often mis-timed, series links get broken, the repeats get included with the recordings, etc.
If this happened occasionally, you could put it down to human error, but it occurs so often that I can only account for it by their being incompetent.
| Fri 15 Jan 2016 16:48:14 #42 | -
C5 and 5 USA seem to be in class of their own with the number and frequency of errors they make and recordings are often mis-timed, series links get broken, the repeats get included with the recordings, etc.
C5 do have a poor track record, but the reports in this thread are not entirely what you would expect to see if it was just a case of C5 screwing up again.
| Fri 15 Jan 2016 17:54:34 #44 | -
Sounds like a separate topic is needed just to discusss "Shaun the Sheep" which by the way is definately laugh out loud material
| Fri 15 Jan 2016 21:28:11 #45 | -
giverny - 49 minutes ago »
Sounds like a separate topic is needed just to discusss "Shaun the Sheep" which by the way is definately laugh out loud material Totally agree, I can't believe JamesB has never watched at least one episode. I love the farmer, though most of the characters make me laugh out loud too.
| Fri 15 Jan 2016 22:19:26 #46 | -
JamesB
The latest thinking is that they might be using the scheduled start or end time from the Guide under some circumstances, rather than the near real-time signals.
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Could legacy coding be resulting in the box opting to use Guide start/end times rather than AR signals "in some circumstances"?That is an interesting and possible cause. I would rephrase it as "Is it possible that the box uses the timing signals, but falls back on the scheduled times if it fails to see them or they are not present".
On second thoughts, I think that must be wrong.
A programme is scheduled for 9pm and record it with the timing signal. The programme actually begins at 9:10pm.
If the box looked at the scheduled time as well, the box would start recording at 9pm, the scheduled time, as it had not seen the timing signal. This defeats the whole purpose of the timing signal!
| Sat 16 Jan 2016 12:44:02 #47 | -
JohnH77 - 55 minutes ago »
JamesB
The latest thinking is that they might be using the scheduled start or end time from the Guide under some circumstances, rather than the near real-time signals.
...
Could legacy coding be resulting in the box opting to use Guide start/end times rather than AR signals "in some circumstances"?
That is an interesting and possible cause. I would rephrase it as "Is it possible that the box uses the timing signals, but falls back on the scheduled times if it fails to see them or they are not present".
On second thoughts, I think that must be wrong.
A programme is scheduled for 9pm and record it with the timing signal. The programme actually begins at 9:10pm.
If the box looked at the scheduled time as well, the box would start recording at 9pm, the scheduled time, as it had not seen the timing signal. This defeats the whole purpose of the timing signal!A UK Freeview box using AR should follow the Now/Following signal unless the timer has been set manually. Piers Lomax was referring to the possibility that the Huawei YouView box might follow the scheduled time instead, either at Start or End or both.
If both, and if the AR time agreed with the scheduled time as would probably quite often be the case, the programme would record correctly and the fault would not be noticeable. If the programme was running late or early, a box fault of the kind referred to by Lomax could result in the recording
- starting too early and ending too early (programme truncated);
- starting too late and ending too late (missed beginning);
- or starting too early and ending too late, which would deliver a fully recorded programme but could play havoc with adjoining timers.
The FVP4000T probably doesn't suffer from such a fault, it's just a speculative possibility.
Edit. Interesting to see a similar problem described on a Vestel box - manufacturer not identified.
Summary: EPG scheduled start time overrides accurate recording start signal
Description: The recording start trigger behaviour has changed compared to pre-emerald software. Before, recordings always start when the now/next info changed (i.e. accurate recording). Now it looks like the start signal is only obeyed if a programme starts before the scheduled start time. If a programme scheduled start is at 21:00, for example, and the now/next signals the actual start at 21:03, the software does not wait for the start signal and starts recording 3 minutes early at 21:00 instead. Maybe this change in behaviour is intentional?
Steps To Reproduce:
http://pvrbugs.futaura.co.uk/print_all_bug_page_word.php?search=&sort=&dir=DESC&type_page=html&export=-1&show_flag=0However, I'm probably way off-topic for the thread. Apologies. I am silent.
| Sat 16 Jan 2016 14:06:48 #48 | -
Faust - 1 day ago »
giverny - 49 minutes ago »
Sounds like a separate topic is needed just to discusss "Shaun the Sheep" which by the way is definately laugh out loud material Totally agree, I can't believe JamesB has never watched at least one episode. I love the farmer, though most of the characters make me laugh out loud too.
I was so please when for series 3 (and 4) they brought back the farmer's puppet design from series 1.
| Sun 17 Jan 2016 11:37:28 #49 | -
JohnH77 - 1 day ago »
1 The Humax 9200T released 10 years ago seems to use the programme information banners to start (and presumably stop) the recording. I think it was probably a design error by Humax to use the programme information banner for timing. Equally, however, it could have been that the timing signals were not available when the 9200T design was completed. Or it could be that the standards changed. For example, the information banner might originally have been sent at the same time as the programme timing signals, allowing manufacturers to choose either. If this requirement was then relaxed, those manufacturers who chose it were left up the creek without the proverbial paddle.
2 The FVP-4000T is much more modern and seems to me to use the correct "Record me now" signals to start and stop the recordings.The PVR-9200T does use the change of event in the EIT p/f transmission for accurate recording, which is the same detail that other boxes use. (EIT P/F is what James referred to as now/following, and also sometimes referred to as now/next.)
The earlier versions of the 9200T software when AR was introduced displaying the I-panel on a live channel confusingly shows the programme info from the 7 day schedule instead of that associated with the current event as indicated by the EIT p/f.
Both my 9200T are currently not setup but I thought that the latest version does show the detail from the EIT p/f and therefore changes when the EIT p/f present event changes?
| Sun 17 Jan 2016 12:34:24 #50 |
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